My knee jerk reaction is to be against the idea of multiple BoTWs. But maybe it's because I'm a United guy at heart.

On the other hand, Nadeo decided to separate the games into their own Titles. So why shouldn't we?

On the other hand, both games are in ManiaPlanet... so they're sort of together.

To be honest, I actually don't care either way.

If you do it though... you'll have to think of the future. All future titles will probably have to have their own BoTW. If we eventually end up with 4 or 5 TM2 titles, then that could really fill up the front page with a lot of windows. Of course it could be like TMUF TMX where you can choose from your profile which windows you want to have visible.

I do remember thinking that Stadium would overrun the site when it arrived here. Certainly as far as track uploads that did become true. But Stadium didn't take over BoTW like I thought it would, at least not yet. If separate BoTWs will help people make the transition en masse then it might be a good idea to do it.

You say we should think of the future, and I understand your logic, but not necessarily. We're trying to change it now. Why can't we change it then? And plus, the idea was that moving was frowned open as a consequent of the likely loss of a fanbase. By the time we have 4 or 5 titles, you would have either moved/recreated your fanbase here, or faded into the background on TMNFX, which you chose to stay on.

I've read this thread again and I see some people say they just don't like MX without saying why so this is a group I can't get a grip on. I can't understand their reasons for staying. But I still think there's another group that would come here if they had their own botw because tmxnf was always a seperate community. I was actually thinking of just sharing the other botw for canyon and valley and envs to come but time will tell if it needs change.

I do think there is one other major reason for builders to stay in TM1: lack of TM2Unlimiter. Many builders have become dependent on this. Arc_ will probably update it after release so more people will make the move to TM2 then.
There's a big disccusion about tm2unlimiter already. Nadeo should worry that this 3rd party program has so much influence on the game. There's a discussion about adding ingame block mixing but I dont think that will happen and it's best to keep tm2unlimiter a seperate program. There's only one solution: Nadeo should hire Arc_ so he can make more updates!

Reasons for builders to move from TMXNF to MX:
-Macroblocks (this makes building 2.0)
-In-editor copy/paste tool (was possible with 3rd party program but now comfy and bug free)
-Better graphics (not neccesary for building but once you're used to it your tmnf tracks will look old and grey)
-No more free zones (get your tracks played on 100+ player servers again!)

Some cons/changes:
-No tm2unlimiter yet
-Landing bug got a bit worse (you just have to build smoother landings)
-Triangles2D doesn't work in TM2 (but you can inport from TM1)
-Upcoming updates like a new podium and the fix for the cam2 loop twitch makes builders wait with releasing their tracks

Looking at this list there are plenty reasons to switch to tm2 stadium but also some reasons to stay. And I guess some people find it more important to keep the things they are used to than getting new things. Let's hope things are fixed at release. [Edit, I was babbling here].

While a BotW for every environment might indee be a bit too much in the end, a possible solution would be to integreat a separate BotW for the newest environment (now stadium, later valley) and merge the rest of the envis into a overall BotW. Those "newest envi" BotW could even be customisable in your profile and set to your favourite envi.

i also noticed that stadmaps dont get so much attention
when i upload a canyonmap i get mind 200 dl's
a stadmap doest get over 100

but i dont think that we should seperate the community
it's a new game and the communities should be mixed here
and why are there so few onlystadplayers active in the forum?
the might get into the community if they were in my opinion

i always test maps if they have a nice screen
but most of the uploaded stadmaps do have a screen at all
a screen always helps you to promote your track
so mabe thats also a reason why so many mappers dont get many awards

just look at c4Freak or rachovolker
they got many awards on their first stadmaps on mx

I really want to move over to MX.
I really do.

Stadium 2 is superior in so many ways compared to the original one. Better graphics, better optimized and I even like the new cam2 better. And when the new blocks arrive it just makes the difference even clearer.

However what I miss here is the community. Most of the folks at NF simple won't let go. Just like GanjaRider I don't quite understand the reasoning behind this but that's how it is for now anyways, and that's why I will mostly stick with NF. I already tried to make a fresh start here but it went pretty much under the radar.

top 10 for each environment is great. what are you all on about?

both environments have an equal chance of getting into the BOTW, and people get to pick from the best tracks of a certain environment, and of course, more exposure for those tracks that just missed out on the top 10.

The reason's actually quite simple: several groups made sure the community split up
lazy Server admins:
When nadeo decided to make a convert tool available for the newly released stadium2, most server admins went lazymode and converted all tracks from tmnf and therefor killed the urge for builders to switch to tm2 stadium. (tracks were pulled from tmnforever.tm-exchange and not from tm.mania-exchange)

lazy Server admins pt2
As a lot of those converted tracks didn't have a proper cam (and still don't) conversion, loads of tracks became impossible to play. As those lazymode server admins didn't remove the bad camtracks from the cycle, loads of players headed back to tmnf where cams actually do work.

Steamlaunch
When nadeo went steam they added 3 titles the same day: a final version (canyon), a preorder + free beta (sm) and a preorder/play closedbeta (stadium)
If i were a new player interested in racegames i wouldn't pay for a game i don't know when there's a full version available.

stadium launch
As stadium was launched as a surprise, none of the servertools/websites were ready for the launch yet, so although there was a game, it was almost impossible to pull teammembers from tmnf. Servertools and dedimania weren't ready, so most recordhunters didn't feel the need.

Nadeo/ubisoft promotion
As nadeo at 1st didn't even want to release a stadium version for tm2, they didn't do a lot of work promoting stadium

shootmania open beta
the 1st month of the open beta for shootmania most of the then active canyon/tmnf community went for shootmania. However, due to the lack of environment promotion, after that all players went back to their environments.

summertime in europe
that damn yellow thingie in the sky is making me sweat behind my screen, making it impossible to see what's on my screen for 50% of the day and makes me want to sit outside with a beer, watch legs of female fellow humans.

tmx/mx versions
on every new game (beside united), mx created a new forum instead of a subforum. Once you're bound to a forum you don't talk a lot about actual ingame content, most talk is done in the offtopic/general subforums. So joining a new forum means either leaving those newly made buddies talk in mid air or have 14 different bookmarks for tmx/mx sites.

almost every new site has a forum
clans, tutorial sites, tools, almost all of them have their own forum, adding to the split up of the community even further

integration of steam sharing
now that there's an ingame button "share files", new builders don't have to search for a place to share files anymore (untill they come online and want their tracks/maps played online as there's no /admin add #steamID )


conclusion: we, the community, with the help of nadeo/ubisoft did this to ourselves

GanjaRider says:
Landing bug got a bit worse (you just have to build smoother landings)
-Triangles2D doesn't work in TM2 (but you can inport from TM1)
-Upcoming updates like a new podium and the fix for the cam2 loop twitch makes builders wait with releasing their tracks

smoother landings?? no, you all just have to stop adding those reverse ramps. Why make it easy for those players who already know how to drive and use airbrake while making it impossible for new players to make it to the next checkpoint?
agree on the other 2!

BLiNNeMaNS says:

GanjaRider says:
Landing bug got a bit worse (you just have to build smoother landings)

smoother landings?? no, you all just have to stop adding those reverse ramps. Why make it easy for those players who already know how to drive and use airbrake while making it impossible for new players to make it to the next checkpoint?

I agree with you on keeping tracks beginner friendly but reversed ramps can also be easy and sometimes just making the jump lower is sufficient. It depends on the situation how to make it smoother/less buggy.

I was also wondering where the Stadium maps are from the first page. Especially when now the cams are fixed.

Interesting: Canyon got less players by now but Stadium got more. And at this moment, I cant see any single Stadium maps.

I fully agree with Blinns points.

Except summertime part.

And maybe one more thing...this site with this ugly background somehow feels comfortable - not. The whole thing is just too raw and awkward for me. banner should be also updated... Whatever, this is only a last thing I culd mention about MX. But I wont give up coming back from time to time and to see whats up.

And yea. Really don't get why the things what GR mentioned didn't attract the builders enough. I think however maybe you guys should start first releasing new and cool maps. And somehow finding out how the best builders could move here. Smth like the MTC or anything else, a special project.

And finally, there will be no excuses when the damned new blocks are coming. They are the only last hope of us^^ BUT: to tell the truth, those ones which I happened to see are completely useless form the mainstream point of view of trackbuilding.