a record storing system

That's why you're backing down from this discussion?

really?

...

I mean eyebo made a fair point, but even if there wasn't a record storing system, you'd still be more wrong than you can ever know.

The "premise" of any game is to have fun. How could you forget this, nerds?


Of course, it wouldn't make any sense to rank the non"cheaters" against the "cheaters."
They're playing by different rules, and as a result, playing different puzzles.


I think it's possible to build puzzles where exploiting isn't successful.

irondragons says:
the idea of a manufactured puzzle is to solve it without going outside of the rules of engagement and laws of the context it exists within.

The only rule of engagement is getting to the finish area. Every other rule is implicit at best.

double post

... says:
They're playing by different rules, and as a result, playing different puzzles.

I don't think you understand that by using some of these exploits, you can skip entire chambers.

Literally, the whole chamber. They're not playing different puzzles. They're walking into a chamber and then they're walking out of it, that's not a puzzle.

... says:
The only rule of engagement is getting to the finish area. Every other rule is implicit at best.

what

What do you think the rules of engagement are of figuring out a jigsaw puzzle, dude? Do you think getting the getting all of the pieces in a bunch is the only one? Hey all of the other rules are implicit, so let's just clip off all the edges of the pieces, maybe stick them in your mouth and rub them against your bum a bit, and then glue them together. So by not abiding by these so-called implicit rules, what you are left with at the end of the day is not a dandy picture of the Eiffel Tower, but instead something that resembles nutty diarrhea.

also

Thinking outside of the box does not apply-- this isn't a mystery or some detective work, because those things aren't pre-determined. When you solve a crime there are no rules, it's reality, not a game. The whole mystery wasn't set up for you to have fun, it's completely random and subject to so many different possible conditions; Portal is a pre-determined and intricately set up. Portal did not murder someone and you're not trying to find the fastest possible solution to bring them to justice; Valve created these puzzles, especially for you, to have fun with. The chambers have been built with specific solutions in mind, solutions that are intended to be fun and enjoyable, and god they are.
When you use an exploit you gloss over these things, the things that Valve has put into the game to make the game fun, thus breaking the premise. And as mentioned before, some chambers can be skipped in seconds using this exploit. You're effectively skipping whole sections of the game by exploiting it. You are ruining the premise of the puzzles Valve has spent years perfecting.

You should not expect people to make chambers exploit-free especially so they can pander to people like you who can't grasp the point of a puzzle game.

irondragons says:

they're not useful

they just break the game

why would anyone want that in a puzzle game?

Maybe for more puzzles?

tbph the cube throwing is the tamest of all the exploits

edit : christ i need to revise my last post in this thread when i get time

irondragons says:

... says:
They're playing by different rules, and as a result, playing different puzzles.

I don't think you understand that by using some of these exploits, you can skip entire chambers.

That's just a consequence of poor puzzle design. If you design a puzzle that goes A>B>C and a player finds a way to go A>C, you can't really fault the player.

... says:

... says:
The only rule of engagement is getting to the finish area. Every other rule is implicit at best.

what

What do you think the rules of engagement are of figuring out a jigsaw puzzle, dude? Do you think getting the getting all of the pieces in a bunch is the only one? Hey all of the other rules are implicit, so let's just clip off all the edges of the pieces, maybe stick them in your mouth and rub them against your bum a bit, and then glue them together. So by not abiding by these so-called implicit rules, what you are left with at the end of the day is not a dandy picture of the Eiffel Tower, but instead something that resembles nutty diarrhea.

I'm glad I got you so excited. Your jigsaw fetish is amusing.

... says:

Thinking outside of the box does not apply-- this isn't a mystery or some detective work, because those things aren't pre-determined. When you solve a crime there are no rules, it's reality, not a game. The whole mystery wasn't set up for you to have fun, it's completely random and subject to so many different possible conditions; Portal is a pre-determined and intricately set up. Portal did not murder someone and you're not trying to find the fastest possible solution to bring them to justice

What the fuck am i reading

... says:
You should not expect people to make tracks cut-free especially so they can pander to people like you who can't grasp the point of a racing game.

latter half of the post wasn't meant for you

fallout says:
They're playing by different rules, and as a result, playing different puzzles.

That's just a consequence of poor puzzle design. If you design a puzzle that goes A>B>C and a player finds a way to go A>C, you can't really fault the player.

yeah except it's not poor puzzle design?

millions of people played this game without a hitch. all the play testers as well.

someone exploits the game and it's suddenly poor puzzle design?

do you understand how games work. ever play battleship and just punch other player in the face, bend over the board and look at his ships, just because well, you're cutting out B. Let's justify punching someone in the face, because not punching the other player is an implicit rule, and if it means we go from A -> C instead of A to B to C, I can't see the wrong in it!

Morals aside, that's still as much of an exploit as any. It clearly goes against what the designers of Battleship intended. You either abide by the rules of engagement of the game, i.e not look over at their pieces, or you break the entire premise of the game.