It was possible to change the AT (ta) time, before the update to maniaplanet...

And respawn should be allowed becouse a platform track is about to make so few respawn as possible and
it should be hard/impossible to get 0 respawn, (atleast 1 impossible cp to clear whitout respawn)

Thanks Ville!

md says:
obviously that's just his thought, which i agree with. it would be quite lame to me releasing a platform track where i (=the buildier) can't make 0 respawn run. it would be like releasing a race track validated using the 'help ways' instead of the normal route O.o

I prefer platform tracks with a more "RPG-like" approach where you try to minimise the number of respawns, as opposed to the much easier tracks where your only goal is 0 respawns - making the respawn system pointless and essentially creating a normal transition hell track with no timekeeping. The point of platform competition is to see who needs the fewest respawns, not who uploads his 0 respawn replay first.

I'm making an RPG mini track and the goal is that a skilled player can finish with about 5 respawns, a noob may need 50. It's supposed to be a puzzle after all! Only a few people in the world can ace an RPG.

md says:
it took me quite a lot of days to make a perfect ride.

I have better things to do with my life than spend "quite a lot of days" driving a trackmania track over and over. I've wasted a whole day once trying to validate Baofengxue with no mistakes and it almost put me off RPGs for good.
(And then someone found a cut. )

DerKleine says:
I'd suggest practicing the different parts of your track first and finding the best ways to do each section (for example with the one wallride on my map I realised that by driving on to the wall as late as possible It was more likely for me to manage the wallride) and then in the end trying to do it all in one go.

That almost seems like a lol track where the entire gameplay is about figuring out the trick, not about executing it well. Morello (lead designer of League of Legends) posted about the "burden of knowledge" antipattern and this is a prime example.

Enai Siaion says:
I prefer platform tracks with a more "RPG-like" approach where you try to minimise the number of respawns, as opposed to the much easier tracks where your only goal is 0 respawns - making the respawn system pointless and essentially creating a normal transition hell track with no timekeeping. The point of platform competition is to see who needs the fewest respawns, not who uploads his 0 respawn replay first.

even if i do agree with your idea of platform ("to see who needs the fewest respawns, not who uploads his 0 respawn replay first") i think your definition of RPG track is kinda misleading. to me, an RPG track is not totally about stunts and tricks, but it should be highly focused on the atmosphere/scenery/story, thus involving a massive use of MT in order to pull a story out of the track. in my book, tracks like crusards' actually are RPGs because they tell a story, even if they're not typical platform tracks. sure an RPG track can also be a platform (in tmnx there were loads of them). still, to me RPG is a track style, while platform is a type of the track.

as an example of what i'm saying, why don't you try pjw's or mine entries to the contest (actually the only tracks i've raced this far ). you'll see there are no RPG elements in any of them, still you'll need a ridiculous amount of tries to finish them the first time!

also, we were both able to drive a flawless run on our own tracks. as you said: noob, 50 tries; skilled guys, 5 tries; buildier and nolifers, 0 tries.

md says:
buildier and nolifers, 0 tries.

haha

Like md, I see rpg tracks as sort of a different animal altogether. You're (usually?) really trying to evoke a mood or a particular playstyle in an rpg track, and it seems to me that the whole restart count (if the track is platform) becomes sort of secondary to that goal. But if you're talking about a typical platform track, the whole idea that the gamemode is based on is to drive it with the fewest number of restarts--that's what defines platform. Of course you're going to go for the fewest restarts you can manage, and the lowest number--the ultimate goal--is 0, regardless of the track difficulty.

This confused me:

Enai Siaion says:
That almost seems like a lol track where the entire gameplay is about figuring out the trick, not about executing it well. Morello (lead designer of League of Legends) posted about the "burden of knowledge" antipattern and this is a prime example.

To me, "figuring out the trick" and "executing it well" are, in this case, just points along the same learning spectrum, which is driving skill. It's irrelevant whether that skill lies entirely in quick reflexes and precise drift skills, or whether it includes being able to take in a scene, and mentally process the possibilities and the potential physics at work. Heck, drifting is a "trick" if you don't know how to do it, as is learning to recover from a bad landing, or doing a two-wheel tilt on a hard downhill turn.

Burden of knowledge is a valid concept, and can be a very dangerous element in complex MMOs that rely on different skillsets/classes/items/enemies/etc., but we're talking about Trackmania here. Yes, the physics are deep and satisfying, but we're all still using the same physics system, and we all have exactly the same potential abilities.

guys what are u talking about here ?
its a platform contest.
simple

Platform as i know it:
narrow parts of road, hard to drive corners, jumps which need precision to land, speedlimit checks. --> signs to show the way.
And of course the author should be able to drive his track in 0 fail attempts.
if u cant drive your track with 0 attempts, u cant calculate it well-.

RPG is a complete different thing.

^^^ Enai was talking about tracks that are both at the same time (I think?)--that's what got RPG tracks into the discussion.

(But yeah, notice me not arguing with you. )

ubm says:
And of course the author should be able to drive his track in 0 fail attempts.

read posts above please.

md says:
also, we were both able to drive a flawless run on our own tracks. as you said: noob, 50 tries; skilled guys, 5 tries; buildier and nolifers, 0 tries.

I managed a 0 respawn run during a practice (argh) and then what would have been a 0 respawn validation run if I didn't roll over at the finish and come to a stop on the freaking finish block right in front of the arch. My next run had 7 respawns. I gave up at that point.

ubm says:
And of course the author should be able to drive his track in 0 fail attempts.
if u cant drive your track with 0 attempts, u cant calculate it well-.

So if I have two runs, one where I crash in front of the finish and one after cp1, this means the track is bad?

Ps. 80% of my respawns on Nadeo platform tracks are due to missing or deceptive signs.

In my opinion, a platform map can be as hard as you want it, but it should never contain lucky sections. It's okay to search a little bit for the way and to figure out how to drive each section, but once you figured it, it should be possible to do a 0 respawn run. It might take a lot of training, but it should be possible.
If one author is not able to do it for himself in 0 respawns, then either he needs to train a lot of more or design the map in a way that he will make it.
At least this are my two cents

Soon we have fifty cent here